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Fwiw, I did not like it for spraying, but LOVE Royal Lac as
a French polish. Built quickly and evenly. Spirited off to a beautiful high gloss. Only finish I plan on using (at least until my next favorite [WINKING FACE]).

Could not get an even coat with my guns. Either too wet/heavy or pebbly. YMMV.


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Royal-Lac is supposed to be similar to polyester. I'm not sure how that pans out in terms of ding-resistance, but there are a few videos on their video page that explain what Royal-Lac is, and how it differs from traditional shellac. This one is about "proving" it's durability against moisture, alcohol, and heat.

I've used the traditional padding technique on three guitars with this product. A few coats of seal lac and the rest with Royal lac.

I am also interested in it's scratch/ding resistance if anyone can comment.

Thanks,
Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Too early for me to say Pat.
I think the other guys would have more experience with that. For what it's worth, I have three or four more projects planed that I'm planning on using this product on, and since the OM in the pictures is for my personal use, I will be able to speak to that in the months and years to follow. Only time will tell, but what I see I really love. Another builder friend of mine was over today and loved it. He was totally floored with the look of the finish, and if it is as impervious to alcohol and sweat etc. as the claims, then he is also serious about trying it.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

It looks fantastic, Don!

Looks like perfection Don. You really took your time and did it right!
Mike

Thanks Don. Let me put it this way: how would you feel about running a thumbnail across your guitar at this point in time? I'm not asking this to mean, I'm asking because as much as I like the look of a French polished guitar, I can't seem to finish one and then assemble the darn thing without putting at least one thumbnail mark in it somewhere. Then I'm into repairing the finish before the guitar is even completed. Also, I took a look at the video that demonstrates creating a "piano quality finish" using Royal Lac. This was done on a panel that had at least 35 days cure time. It was buffed up to a high gloss by hand. Again, it looked great but the fact that it was able to reach that point by hand polishing made me go hmmm. In my experience, a finish has to be relatively soft to be able to do that. Contrast that to polyester where, due to its hardness, it takes tons of buffing even starting with a relatively coarse compound and using a machine. However, once it's done, it stays done and scratch free barring a big mistake.

I also want to say that all the guitars look great and it does look to me like Royal Lac has a lot going for it. I still do French polish on request as I did a few guitars ago for a classical player and, if I can get it to Canada, I will be giving Royal Lac a try.

Cheers,
Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

I wouldn't like putting a thumbnail to any finish...



Like just about any finish, Royal Lac will get harder with time. Don't forget, even nitro when cured for several weeks will still buff out pretty easily, as it actually "moves" a little when buffed. It is still relatively soft for months.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Pat, as I understand it, a french polished guitar will never stand up to the nail against the top test. No matter how tough a finish, it is applied so thin that the wood underneath will still dent even if the finish could be undamaged,
Mike

For the scratch test, please read Tim McKnight's posting dated Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:03 pm in this thread. It is probably on the first page. There are references on Royal-Lac's durability on other pages too.

Pat, my Royal Lac arrived at FedEx in Mississauga on Monday. I should get it Windsor on Tuesday, so no problem getting it to Canada.

Bob

You can't test it even on Rosewood. Most of the time you are just compressing the wood underneath. I usually try to gauge the hardness of a finish by the long dried spill over on the tin or jar. Not the stuff that has a large build up, that can take years to truly harden.
Note that hardness and toughness aren't necessarily the same thing.

Michael N is correct; hardness and toughness are not the same thing. I had a long talk with one of the engineers at Grafted Coatings a few years ago, (the folks that make all the KTM products) and he was explaining in detail the differences between the properties of coatings. You can think of toughness as being the ability to resist scratching or pulling. The tougher the finish, the more difficult it actually is to remove scratches as well. Just because something is hard does not make it resistant to scratching.

_________________
"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Beautiful guitar Don.


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Ken

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Ken

I guess part of what prompted my original question was that I've seen some claims that Royal Lac has all the benefits of shellac and the toughness of polyester. Not that it may not be a great product, but I am having doubts about it being as tough as polyester so to that end, I'm trying to get a better feel for its scratch resistance. Perhaps I should have phrased my question along the lines: can anyone comment on the scratch resistance of Royal Lac compared to regular French polished shellac or any other finish. Is it about the same or is it more scratch resistant?

Thanks,
Pat

_________________
There are three kinds of people:

Those that make things happen,
those that watch things happen,
and those that wondered what happened.

Pretty hard to tell inside of a couple of years. Shellac keeps getting harder and tougher year over year. I can dent the wood, under the Royal-Lac, but the Finish remains un cracked. Still have a ding to fill. I bet I can do it with poly too, unless you put it on so thick it kills the sound!

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Pat,
Vijay referenced Tim's scratch tests on the first page or two of this thread. That should give you some indication of what you're looking for. The other thing you can do is simply get a quart and do a bunch of testing, and see how it stands up to scratching over a period of time. Coat a board really well, buff it out, and make scratch line once a month for a year or two.

Thanks Ken!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I'm pretty gentle with my classicals so they rarely get scratched even with normal shellac. But..my body chemistry is rough on normal shellac, and I have to avoid getting sweat on a FP guitar. The guitar I FP with royal lac is as impervious as a lacquer guitar I have. So, I'm no help with your question on scratching, but I can offer that the finish is totally solvent resistant to normally encountered moisture. That is a huge benefit for me, and I intend to keep using the Royal lac. Cost is pretty reasonable if you can use up a can before it goes bad. It's worth it to me to keep buying it even though I only build one a year or so, and will undoubtedly throw away more than I use,
Mike

I believe that is the biggest advantage of Royal Lac. The perspiration thing on a classical guitar is the biggest issue with FP guitars. I have seen finish pretty much disappear on the back at the upper bout where it rests against the chest, and on the lower bout corner where the arm rests on the binding, in a relatively short time. Easy to repair, but has to be done over and over. One and done with Royall Lac would be a nice solution.

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

So...
This morning I was looking over the neck that was buffed out on Saturday, and noticed that the finish seemed to be delaminating at the inside corner of the dart volute where it meets the back of the headstock. Bummer!

Except it was just a slight build-up of Menzerna compound. Nervous breakdown averted....

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

What happens spraying clear nitro over a new finish that has 4 coats of Seal Lac, and 2 coats of Royal Lac?

I don't know... What happens? Is this like a knock-knock joke?


Seriously though, I don't know if anyone has tried to do this yet. You should shoot an email to Vijay and ask him. Please let us know what he says!

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Anyone done anything with dyes under RL? I would think a water based product? I'm interested in finishing a mandolin with it but need a translucent red for the top and, of course, I want to pop the figure on the curly maple B/S.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Geoff Burghardt recently filmed a mandolin building course with me and in it he uses transtint dyes with water to do a hand rubbed sunburst. He then top coats it with shellac. You could also use Royal lac for your topcoats.